March 2, 2022

Episode 303: Interview with Enya Habel and Anna Hinze

In this episode (44:02)

Swedish champion Enya Habel and German champion Anna Hinze join the podcast to talk about European agility, course design trends, jump heights, breed diversity, and how Covid-19 impacted the sport in their countries.

You Will Learn

  • What course design trends that FCI competitors are seeing.
  • How many jump heights are in FCI agility trials.
  • How many people compete at the Swedish and German national championships.
  • How Covid-19 affected training and competition in Sweden and Germany.


(upbeat music) - Welcome to Bad Dog Agility, a podcast helping you reach all of your dog agility goals. Whether it's competing under the bright lights of the televised finals at Westminster or successfully navigating a homemade course in your own backyard. We'll bring you training tips, interviews, and news about the great sport of dog agility. Are you ready? - I'm ready. - I'm ready. - I'm ready. - The

show starts with your host, Jennifer, Esteban, and Sarah. - I'm. Jennifer. - I'm Esteban. - And I'm Sarah. And this is episode 303. Today's podcast is brought to you by and the new Teeter TeachIt. An easy to use tool that controls the amount of tip on your Teeter, so you can introduce motion to your dog in a gradual way. Go to for the new Teeter Teach

It and other training tools and toys. Use discount code, BDA 10 to get 10% off your order. That's - Today we're with two very special guests as they finish up their US tour. I'd like to introduce Anna Enzo from Germany. She is the reigning team EO champion along with the WAO team champion from the most recent years. Say hi. - Hi. - We are also joined today

by Enya Habel from Sweden. She is the reigning national champion in Sweden along with an FCI agility world champion medalist. Welcome to the podcast. - Thank you. - All right, and for those of you listening on the podcast, these ladies are actually sitting right next to Jennifer. We could not pass up a chance to talk to them, having them both in the same place. So let's just start

with a little bit more about each of you. You can draw straws to see who goes first. Tell us just a little bit about yourself, what you've done in agility, what kind of dogs you run, that kinda thing. - Okay, I'll go first. I'm Enya. I'm from Sweden and I have been doing agility for 10 plus years. At the moment I have Border Collies, Shelties, and Jack Russells

are here. But my Jack Russell is retired. She was my first dog. I have also been competing with very different breeds that haven't been my own dogs. - Excellent. Welcome to the podcast. - Thank you. - Hi, I'm Anna Enzo. I'm from Germany and I've been doing agility for about 18 years now. I started out with Cairn Terrier and then I moved on to Border Collies and Shelties.

And I currently have one Border Collie, May, she is retired, and two younger Shelties who are my main competition dogs at the moment. - Wonderful. Welcome to the podcast. - Thank you. - All right, well, we just have a variety of topics that we thought we would talk to you about since we have, you know, two Europeans right here who know exactly what's going on and can kind

of give us a sense for how agility is the same and different over there. The first thing we wanted to talk about was one of the things that has been really impactful to the sport the last couple of years, and that's COVID-19, and how that's affected shows, how the coming back to showing is going in Europe. There's, you know, quite a few shows going on now in the

United States. We have AKC Nationals coming up. So the big events are coming back. So how has COVID-19 impacted European agility? - I can go first for Germany. In Germany, we had several months of lockdown when COVID first came out. So all shows have been canceled. All training halls were closed. There was no training possible. Even outside you couldn't train in the dog sport clubs because the clubs

were not allowed to meet. So it was very, very tough for a lot of people. And then in the summer, it kind of eased up a bit again. We had shows I think from July, 2020 to October or November, 2020. And then we had another lockdown for the whole winter and most of spring. So that was a very long one. I think almost six or seven months. It

was a bit easier to train in small groups, but shows were canceled by the main organization. So we had a very long show break. And we just started again in, I think, June or July, 2021 to have shows again. And since then, we were lucky enough to have shows. Most of them are pretty normal size for us. The bigger ones, for example, we had the back at the

beginning of the year, the Beverly and Agility Challenge Court with, I think, more than 600 competitors. And they had a very strict Corona protocol. Everybody had to be vaccinated or how do you say, recovered? And people had to show up with a test and people also had to have tests every day. So they had a testing center at the event and people were going to test every day

and then they were allowed to compete again on the next day. - Wow. And Enya, how did it... How was it up in the Sweden inland area? - So I think Sweden chose a different direction of how to handle COVID in general, compared to many other countries. We didn't have as strict one as Germany had. I was myself competing in Germany in December, and we needed to swab

our brains every day to even be allowed into the venue. No, Sweden, we didn't have any lockdowns at all during the entire COVID. It's not done yet, but we did though have canceled shows. During the first year it was worse. The winter mainly was when they closed completely. And during the summers, they opened up a little bit more. We never closed any training halls and we could continue

training as usual, but we did a trial for the winters, I think it was maybe eight months or something. And now since, I don't even know, maybe since the beginning of summer, we have had trials. And Sweden and also took away all the restrictions about COVID recently. So now we don't have any limitations of how many people can come to the competition. So it's unlimited. I think in

Germany, even before COVID also limited the amount of competitors at the competitions. - Yes. - So I think it's more common that you have smaller events, but many events. And in Sweden it's not allowed according to our rules to limit the amount of participants at the competition. So they can be as small or as big as they want. If you register in time, we have to accept you.

So at one point, our Swedish Agility Association added a restriction that we could only be a certain amount of people at the competition at the same time. So that was very hard for the organizers. I'm an organizer myself. And if we had a restriction of 20 people at one time and we had 50 people at one time, we still had to accept all of the participants, but we

had to mix and match, so we weren't so many there at the same time. But I think we were quite lucky. I know many European countries had lockdown and so they couldn't train, they couldn't go their halls, they couldn't go their training fields. And we were quite lucky with that. - Now, do you think COVID, as far as the training standpoint, progressed your training? Like did you take

all that time and you feel like you got a lot of training and you advanced your training, or do you think that it was a true shutdown and everybody just kind of paused and now we're like picking right back up where we left when COVID left off? And you can answer that kind of personally or generically for your country, but I have my opinions on kind of what

happened here, but I'll let you guys... Your views on COVID and how it affected training. - Okay. So for me personally, I kind of took a break because it was also the time when I bought a house and my own training hall, and we needed to fix up that training hall to get it ready for training. So it was really nice to have all the free time, all

those free weekends. And I used it to kind of make my own place. So I really enjoyed not having the pressure of competition and training during that whole time to advance my own hall. - Yeah. So that worked out well for you. - Yeah. It was a good timing. - What about you Enya? - I think I have a little bit different because we were in the US

actually on that similar tour teaching in 2020, in the beginning. And that was when COVID hit Europe in the beginning of that year. So in the beginning, we came home, I think, in February. We have our tryouts for all the events in May. So I actually brought my... What can I say? My number one. My top up dog to US to have training with her. And when I

came home, I had no other option and to continue training her and preparing her for tryouts. And then they canceled tryouts in May, but I kept training because they had selections for the World Championships. And I was one of those who was going to the World Championships that supposed to happen in Estonia. So I continued training and I just tried to keep motivated, to have something to look

forward to. But then I think I also hit a certain point where they canceled the World Championships. Then it more like no for me. But for me it's been different. I gave my dogs a longer rest than I usually do, so they could rest from agility for at least a few two to three months. But at the same time I like the competing and like the trialing and

big events and all of that. That's not really what it is... That for me is a good goal to work towards. But most of all, I absolutely love the dog training part about agility. So I continue training my dogs just because I love training my dogs. But it was challenging in a way where I didn't have something to train towards. But I more took the time to try

to become better. I also focused a lot on my young dogs and trained. I have a two year old, a Sheltie. I trained her, built her foundations. I mean, I picked her up in March, 2020, so that was in the beginning of everything. So I would say she got really nice agility foundation. - She benefited from COVID just like you benefited from getting the hall ready. - But

on the other hand, she also got no socialization, no environmental training, and she's completely different. Like going to trials and agility stuff with her today. I would say she is more affected by the whole thing of an agility competition than my previous dogs who basically grew up on agility competition. So it's a bit different. But I mostly continued training and tried to become better during the time period.

- Right, that's exactly what I wanted to ask you about puppies because over here we each had a puppy, a poodle, and a golden retriever. They were not even one year old. Or they were about a year old when I think COVID hit. And the poodle, I think, was gonna be, you know, nervous, anxious type of personality no matter what, but even the golden retriever was. And so

we just started taking her to show. She just turned three. And we talked with other people there, and here, at least in Texas, there's a lot of talk about the COVID dogs, like an entire generation of dogs. And so I wanted to see... I wanted to ask if you had that. And then Jennifer, you were gonna share your opinion about like what happened. But yeah, I wanted to

know if there was like... If you all were having problems with your Border Collies and Shelties where they were a little more environmentally sensitive or is it just that everybody just thinks so, you know? And so I don't know. Jen, go ahead. - Well, I guess, I was thinking more from the standpoint of like our sport as a whole. And I think if I say, okay, is our

sport as far along now as we would've been at this point in time if there was no COVID? That was kind of more my perspective. And I feel like we... I don't know. I feel like we're about where I would expect. Like I think we should have advanced more, right? Two years off like we should have been doing more, you know, studying and more training when we didn't

have trials and using that time to get better. And I just don't think it happened. I mean, if I had to tip the scale one side or another, I actually think that we are not as far along as we would've been at this same time, had there not been COVID. I think a lot of people, emotionally COVID was very hard and you know, we tended to just kind

of take a break. And I absolutely think that's a completely reasonable response to COVID. So I was just kind of thinking more, you know, okay, were we opportunist and took this time to really advance our training and our learning or were we let that time split by? And I think, you know, if somebody had told me February of 2020, that you're gonna have, you know, almost two years

of more training time and less trials, I would've been like, wow, that'll be amazing. Think how great my dogs will be with all this extra training time, you know. But then in reality, I'm not sure that it happened. You know, there were days where you just didn't want to, you're like, what's the point, right? All the events are canceled and everything slows down. And I look back on

it and I feel like I wasted that time. And I'm not as far along as maybe I would've liked to be. But I was curious if that was just me or here in the States, or how it kind of felt. But yeah, the COVID puppy situation is interesting to say, is it really COVID puppies or is it that just kind of what we think might be the issue?

- Is it the new excuse when we... Or the new explanation, not excuse. The new explanation when your dog's struggling a little bit. - Well, the only other thing that I wanted to say about what Jen was saying too, is that it's definitely a looking back sort of thing, right? 'Cause when we were in it, nobody knew how long it was gonna be and how it was gonna

come back, if it was gonna come back, if sport- - If there were gonna be vaccines. If they were gonna work. Yeah. - And so I think at the time... Like, yeah, I think you're right. If you had just said, why don't you just take two years and then come back, you know, and be amazing, there would've been a different approach. But when it was just like, wait

and see and wait and see, and we don't know what's happening and we don't know how safe it is and everything, and there was all that extra, you know, health stress on top of it, then our responses were, you know, completely different. All right. So the next thing that we wanted to talk about is, breed diversity in Europe. So from our perspective, the European dogs that we see

are at the World Championships, and anybody who happens to be on Facebook, you know, and go viral or whatever. So our view into European agility as Americans, I think is somewhat skewed towards, you know, the best most competitive dogs. What is like the day to day breed diversity that you see in Europe? I have heard judges comment about out the breed diversity that does exist in the United

States at some of the events that showcase it like The Invitational. And so, you know, I have a sense that maybe there's not quite as much, but I kind of wanted to hear what day to day, you know, regular agility people, what that's like. - So for me, in my training, I of course have more breeds than only Border Collies and Shelties. Like if you looked at the

teams at the US ascending to World Championship, that's probably also gonna be a lot of Border Collies and Shelties. So not a big difference there. But I do think that in normal competitions, we have a wider breed variety, but not quite as much as you would see at an AKC show. I been to AKC shows and there are breeds that you would never see at a competition in

Europe. - We would never see a Great Dane. - No. - I don't really see any Corgis in Europe doing agility. - Oh wow. - We saw a lot of Corgis US. - You said the mixed breed. You guys noticed that there's a lot more sport mixes here than you guys are used to. - We don't really have sport mixes in Europe. - Are mixed breeds allowed in

SCI? Like can they show? Okay, so they can compete at local shows, you just don't see them as much, interesting. - I think we have... I can only come up with one like mix now that it was in our national team for a few years. It was a Border Collie and Jack Russell. And she was at the European Open a few years. She won the National Championships. It

was in small category. It was very competitive. Crazy fast. But I'm not sure if it was an accidental or like actual. But I don't think the way people here plan the sport mixes to create something that they want, I wouldn't say we see that in Europe at all. We don't have the border pets and the border with pets and... - I would say not in Continental Europe. I

think some of it we see in Great Britain. - Mm-hmm. Yes. - But not in Continental Europe. - Yes, I agree. Yeah. - So if you had to have one breed that you have not already had, so we're ruling out Border Collie, Sheltie. Enya you said you have a Jack Russell. So if we rule out all the breeds that you've already had, what breed would you have? -

So a Jack Russell is never allowed again in my house. (All laughing) - Only one. - She is my heart and soul, but she is bossy. So my boyfriend says that if we can make a decision, maybe no more Terriers. I do like Terriers but now there will be no more Terriers. I really like the Mudi. - Okay. - But he is a little bit the same. They're

like they're quite much, they are barky, they can be quite shark dogs. But we have both been very interesting in the workers. A lot of people now are getting the working Cockers. I like them a lot. They seems like a lot of fun. So I think that would be my decision if I gonna have a breed that I never had, it would be a worker. - Okay. Anna,

what's your answer? - So if it was just for agility and training, I would get a Terrier. (All laughing) I mean, I started out with a Cairn Terrier but she was never very motivated and doesn't really count as Terrier, I think. So I would get a more agile Terrier. - Person. - Like a person. I would enjoy that. But I don't think I would enjoy it so much

in everyday life. So thinking about that, I would maybe look into Pabios. I like Pabios. Or maybe a Mini Aussie. - Interesting. - Yeah, I like that. We had a Mini Aussie before. - Yeah, that was my first agility dog. It was a Mini Aussie dog. Yeah. - Yeah. We like Aussies. Standard Aussies and Mini Aussies have a nice size. So Jen, well, answer the question too then.

Jen, what would you pick? - We've had this question before and I don't know. I don't know what I would do. I mean, if I had to have a dog not for agility... - You have to pick one. If it was not agility, it's super easy for me. I would have Ibizan Hound or a Pharaoh Hound. Those are like my heart and soul. I love to look at

them and they're so beautiful, standing there and laying on the couch. But for agility, if I had to do something not Sheltie and Border Collie, I might go like a sport mix. Like a Sheltie-Border Collie cross. Does that (indistinct) (All laughing) - That seems like cheating. - A sport mix, a shorter border. I'm gonna breed a Sheltie with a Border Collie. I've never had one of those before.

- Okay, I just have to say like, if I wouldn't have... Like if it wasn't for agility, my option would not be a worker. I think everyone who knows me... I think Anna also know what I would have if it wasn't for agility because I absolutely love Collies. - That's right. We did have that conversation. - And so you have to run down to take pictures of the

Collies. - Yes. I love Collies. - Interesting. Okay, yeah. So now you have to answer it with the two. - Two? All right. - Okay, I'm just gonna say it that I kind of like the Miniature Pinscher, 'cause it looks like, you know, like a Rottweiler, but it's like eight pounds. I love it. I love it. And there's the... Isn't it the German team that has the Miniature

Pinscher on it? - I think it's a Manchester Terrier. - Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Yes, that's the one, Manchester Terrier. Forget it. I was wrong. Manchester Terrier, that's the one I want. I know. Sorry. I mean, yeah, I really like the look of that dog. It looks like a big dog and a small body and everything. - So is that for agility or pet or both? - That's

for agility. Yeah, for pet? I don't know. I might have to steal her answer of Corgi because we saw that fluffy Corgi. - They're so cute. - Yeah, they are flu... I think all the dogs that looks like teddy bears. There's like a white one that has little ears. It looks like a te... It might be the Cairn Terrier. I don't know. There's like one that has little

rounded ears and looks like a teddy bear. Like all those little teddy bear dogs I think are adorable. - Mm. But not a poodle. But we have a poodle. - We have a poodle. I can't choose that. Yeah. - You're right. Okay, I'm gonna go with... For agility, I'm definitely gonna go with Malinois. Yeah, for sure. I would love to run one. That's the only interesting thing I

have love to do in agility I think, run them out. And then on the pet side, I think that's a tough one. But I think maybe like one of the sporting breeds, like, I don't know, like- - Like a flat coat retriever. - Like a flat coat. Yeah. - Yeah, I know you. - Maybe a different retriever. Maybe a lab. I don't know, maybe not. - Yeah, yeah.

- Yeah. Little too busy. All right. Interesting, interesting. All right. Well, the next thing we wanted to talk about was jump heights. In Europe we know that the FCI is considering adding a fourth height. We're not sure when that- - Fifth... No, fourth. You're right. Yeah, yeah. - So for our North American audience who's not familiar with FCI Agility, they basically have three heights, right? It's like small,

medium, and large. And it's essentially 12 inches, 16 inches, and 24 inches. And so what are your thoughts on jump heights? Is it good or bad that you're gonna add another jump height and how do you think it's gonna change things? - I think it will be good to add another jump height. I see a lot of small, large dogs that are struggling to jump large. And I

have some dogs in my training also that train at a lower jump height and maybe don't compete so much. So I think for them it will be nice to actually be competitive at a regular jump height and be able to go and compete. So I'm actually all in favor of that jump height. - Yeah, me too. Of course. Sweden was actually the first, if we're not counting UK,

the first European country to add the five jumping heights that later also was added in, I think, now Finland, Norway, Czech Republic, Hungary, Spain. There are so many countries who added the five heights. So we actually have small, medium, large, but we also have extra small and extra large. And that has... Maybe the extra small is still quite small category, but the large and the extra large have

been very good for many of, as you say, the small or large dogs. And not necessarily the smaller Border Collies, it's good for them too, but we have like these large Shelties and- - Pyr Sheps. - Pyr Sheps, (indistinct) sheepdogs and those who can measure into large. So I think that is a very good development of the sport that we get the extra height. - Yeah, I kind

of feel like that might have already happened if COVID had happened. 'Cause I know there was a lot of talk about it. And then I could see how you just can't make that kind of large scale change when you're also dealing with everything else that's going on. So I think that kind of slowed that up. All right. So next thing is course design trends. So what do you

guys see as like the new trend or the direction that FCI Agility specifically is going? Do you see any... are you starting to see any patterns? Are there certain skills that you're working especially on? - Yeah. It's a hard question because, yeah, we see a lot of trends, but they can change so fast. I think like the recent years, the courses... You have to correct me if I'm

wrong here, Anna. And the courses has developed more towards like we rarely see like straight jumps today. Every line and every jump is basically like the slice lines, a little bit more like soft ins soft outs. So the lines are more like, I would say fluent and more natural, but they do require more training than having straight jumps after each other to a tunnel. So that's the thing

that I practice quite early, for example, with my young dogs, so that they are good at the soft in, soft outs, and that they can discriminate those. We also see longer distances comes more and more, straight tunnels, longer distances. It feels like many of the judges want to add a little bit more speed to the sport, both in dogs, but also in handlers because I think our courses

have developed in a way where it's physically more acquiring for the handler to run the courses. I feel like there are so many courses that I wouldn't be able to do if I was out of shape, for example, because there are such long distances, straight tunnels and crazy speed. And on top of that, very challenging, like layering, verbal discriminations. So I think it requires a lot more from

the handler but also from the dogs that they need to be very well trained. We have a huge trend of verbal discrimination that the dogs needs to know their words. At the moment I'm running with two small dogs and before, I felt like you could run with a small dog almost everywhere. And you can't really do that anymore. It feels like the judges like to challenge also us

in the smaller categories to train our dogs better. And to use that training in our competition courses. And I think I see these trends already in grade one, grade two. The lines look similar, but doesn't require as much discrimination and training. But I've seen some layering and stuff in grade two, I think it's basically in all of our grades, I would say. And I think this also for

me, as I said, I have a small dog and another young, small dog. And for her, one of the main things that I wanted to train when she was younger, she's still very young, but that was like the ability to like let go of me. Like a lot of distance training skills to look forward and not necessarily be so sticky on me, because that doesn't really work on

our courses. So that's a skill that I really try to add to to my dogs, especially the smaller ones quite early. - Yeah. I would agree with that. And I think we're kind of on the same page with the distance training and the focus forward, and obstacle focus, we talked about it a lot in our seminars here also. it is really a skill that is very, very necessary

for our adults in Europe now. We also see like Enya mentioned, quite a bit of layering, but also a bit of obstacles being placed in the way of the handler, so that the handler kind of has to find their own path around obstacles. - And bypass this. - And bypass them and not being able to look at the dog constantly because you are busy trying to navigate your

own way through the obstacles. I think we see more of that also. - So do you think the courses are requiring a greater demand for distance and layering? I mean, I don't look at those necessarily as the same, but layering and/or distance like then say five years now. Like we're are just talking Europe. Like you think more layering and distance now than five years ago? - Yes. -

Okay. Even for small... You said particularly for smaller. 'Cause I feel the same way. Like as a predominantly small dog person, I feel like the demands on FCI courses for distance and layering is greater now. It used to be more of like, oh, the big dogs had to go out there and take that piece of equipment. So we're kind of seeing it more common and trickle down a

little bit. - And it also feels like... In the beginning when the layering trend started to come, it was more about finding obstacles in layering, like go on the other side of the dogwalk and find the tunnel, go on the other side of the weaves and find the jump, like this type of layering. But I feel like in our A3 courses that developed to also having skills in

layering. It's not necessarily that the dog today needs to have just an obstacle commitment in layering, it's that they should know in and out and they can crazy weave entries and like have a lot of skills. - Discriminate. - Yes. - At a distance. - In layering. - Yes. - Yeah. I've seen that a lot in studying courses as well. It's like at first it was like, layer

the dog, we can just go take that tunnel. And now it's like, okay, layer the dogwalk but make sure you get the backside or not- - And not the tunnel. - Yeah, not the tunnel. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. - Mm, do you think this is gonna have an effect on people staying in the sport? So maybe someone, they try agility in Europe, FCI and then, you know, it's

just too hard, right? Or they can't move around very well or they don't have the skills to be able to teach their dogs and they're more likely to quit or give up. And so do you think that happens and do you think this goes hand in hand with like the growth of the sport? If you look even before COVID, this agility, was it growing in Europe or was

it shrinking or kind of the same? Like what are your thoughts on that? - I would say it was growing already. - Yes. I agree. - But COVID gave like extra speed to it, I think. Everyone sitting at home. And we got a lot of like inspiration from social media. I think that was a big part of it. When it comes to the like people staying in the

sport, I think that's unfortunately one thing that might happen with this type of development, that it will not be so easy to reach the highest level of the sport. In Sweden we have big discussions about this at the moment. I think also in Germany and in general in Agility Europe. We have big discussions about it. Like we don't want to take you too far because we want people

to stay in the sport, but it might lead... It's just analysis, not my personal opinion, but it might lead to some kind of splitting in the sport where there is an actual sport, like a elite level, like high level sport. And then there are more like hobby. People doing agility more for hobby. In Sweden we try to find different solutions for how to keep people in the sport

and to keep them also in the lower grades. So the goal for everyone is not always to reach the highest grade and then reach the National Championships. So we added like titles in grade one and two, for example. So you can earn titles in the lower classes as well. We also added like an agility dog of the year that you can win. Before, it was only in the

highest grade you could win that, but now you can be the agility dog of the year also in grade one and two. And recently, they added also a title you can earn from clean runs. So for those who maybe won't win so much, they could focus more on their own performance and what they can do. And we can win a title for either 50, 100, or 150 clean

runs. And that's hard. Like on our courses, that's hard. And I think we have one girl in Sweden who did the 150 clean runs or if it was 100. But we are not many who have achieved that. - That's a nice incentive, I think. - Yes, so that's more for the people that don't want to reach A3. Or they want to, but they also have other things to

compete for on the way. - Yeah, I wish we had something like that in Germany. We don't. We don't have any incentives other than trying to go to the highest grade and to go to any championship. We don't have titles in Germany, so you can't really earn a title. And if you want to go further and go to a championship, you need to be in grade three and

get your clean runs and placements in grade three. - Well, very quickly, at your championship event, your National Championship event, for Sweden and Germany, approximately how many people are there? - We are trying to make it, not necessarily smaller, but we're trying... Like we actually had a lot of problems recently with finding organizers to our nationals because more and more people qualify, because eventually everyone ends up in

the highest grade if you only compete to come up to grade three. So I think we've had approximately maybe... Oh my God, I should know this. 70, 80, small, medium, and maybe a few more in large, 100 maybe in large. - Okay, so you have- - We have extra small and very... Yeah, I should know these numbers. I think the extra small is the maybe only 20, 25

or something and then the small, medium. Yeah. I'm not certain about it, but I think somewhere around that. - Right. But it's still good. It's a pretty good idea of scale, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. So in Germany we actually have it split up because numbers got so big. So we have it for large dogs on one day and it's up to 100 large dogs, I would

say, somewhere between 90 and 100 maybe. And the other day is small and medium dogs and it's maybe 50 to 60 for each. - Interesting, interesting. Here in the United States, we have, you know, many different organizations, but the three biggest ones I know. AKC this year, the American Kennel Club, the National Championship will have about 1,300 dogs, almost 1400. And then UKI, the US Open, that was

around 300, right? Like 275. Somewhere between 250 and 300, I think. Is that right Jen? Does that sound right to you? - I feel like it was more than that. - No, you're right. Wasn't it like 700 this year or something, right? - I was gonna say, I feel like it was a lot more than that. I'm not sure off the top of my head. Okay, we're gonna

look at it and we'll add it to the show notes page. And if someone knows, they can just comment. - 'Cause it was eight ranks. UKI was four days and eight ranks. - Yeah, no, you're right. I think that was a big jump. And then USDA is typically how much? - Wait, USDA? - Is how much typically? - Oh, I have no idea. USDA was smaller. This year

USDA was smaller than UKI and AKC Nationals. It was the smallest of the three that I attended. - Interesting, interesting. - And what is required to go to the nationals? - For UKI, for the US Open, there's no requirements to go. You just show up. - Okay. - Anna's gonna come this year. Would you like to come Enya? (Anna and Enya laughs) - No pressure. (Anna and Enya

laughs) - So that's also maybe a difference because for us it's quite hard to actually qualify for the National Championships. And I think the qualifying part together with us, maybe not trialing as much as you do here in the US. I think in Sweden we don't trial as much as here. Also gives us a lower number of participants at our nationals. - Right. Yeah. I would say that

our qualifications are not necessarily hard but do require a fair amount of showing. So, you know, anybody... 'Cause it's based on points, which is just how many seconds under course time you are and double Qs. So running, you know, two clean on the same day. So any dog can earn points and can earn double Qs. The question is, how many are you earning every time you go on

a show? A really slow dog might only earn, you know, one or two points on a run, but a really fast dog might earn 20 points on a standard run. So like a faster dog is going to have an easier time of making the qualifications, but it's just a matter of how often you show. So you kind of... You know, it does favor fast dogs, but all also

the majority of dogs, if they show enough, can do it, you know. - Okay. And ours is more based on who you beat and if you're first three or- - So ours is actually based on placements. So if you have six first places, you are for sure in. If you have five first and one second, you have to wait and see how many people enter. And if it

doesn't fit with all the first place people, then people may get in with one second place. But that has only happened for the large dogs in some of the recent years, but not all of them. So basically you need your first places. - All right. Well, we know that these two ladies are actually headed like to the airport today. So we're gonna wrap up this podcast. - Like

in five minutes. They're leaving. - Yeah, that's right. We caught them right before. So we're gonna wrap this up, but can each of you tell us where people can find you online? You're both instructors. What kind of things you do live and online? - I have several online classes in English, a little more in German, but some in English. My classes can be found at And there's

a (indistinct) class that will actually start next week. I have a class on weaves, a class on threadles, and a class on tunnel turns. I have also more stuff coming up, so you can check out website. And in addition to that, I do some classes through the Agility Challenge. So this is Daisy Peel's site, and I do some of the stuff on her site. - All right. -

And at the moment I only offer one online concept and I call it My Training Diary. And it's basically... It's actually on Facebook. I have it as a Facebook group where you can buy access to the Facebook group. And I post everything I train with all of my dogs. So it's anything from puppy training, I'm doing now with my Border Collie puppy, to my young dog that is

doing foundation stuff, to my older dog that is preparing for World Championship stuff. So it's basically everything I do with all of my dogs, together with life's trainings, Q&A's, and yeah, stuff like that, but it's no personal feedback. So it's basically just a follow along if you're interested in my training and can ask questions regarding that. And it's a subscription service, so you pay monthly and you find

it at - And can I find you both on Facebook and message you on Facebook as well? - Yes, sure. Of course. - Okay. And for those of you listening to the podcast, we will have all of these links in the show notes. That's probably the easiest way. So if you're listening to the podcast, go to the show notes and there, you know, you'll find all of

these links along with some references to other related topics that we touched on today. All right. Well, thank you ladies so much. We will let you go. Thank you for joining us on the podcast today. - Thank you. Thank you for having us. - Yes. Thank you. - And that's it for this week's podcast. We'd like to thank our sponsor, Happy training. (upbeat music) - Thank you

are listening to Bad Dog Agility. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. For more information, updates, and links to all our socials, just check out our website, If you haven't already signed up for our email subscription, we would love to have you join the BDA community. Until next time, take care. (upbeat music)

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