February 5, 2013

Serpentines and Ketschkers: Analysis of Daisy Peel’s ISC Jumpers Run

In this video, U.S. national champion and 2012 AKC/FCI world team member Daisy Peel and Solar take first place in a well designed International-style jumpers course at the 2013 Rose City Classic in Portland, Oregon. Daisy and Solar, who finished 5th overall for individual large dogs at the FCI World Agility Championship in 2012, effectively use the serpentine and ketschker  maneuvers to create a great run.

Remember, when you’re analyzing your own videos, freeze frame at your dog’s take-off point and check your body position and motion. What cue are you giving your dog at that moment?

Rose City Classic ISC JWW Course Map (provided by Lisa Potts)

You can follow Daisy and her dogs at DaisyPeel.com.

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  • This will be old, but in the last few months of training my new dog, I have dragged a stopwatch with me, and for my dog, wrapping a jump takes way more steps and is slower then just driving them over, or slicing the jump

  • I’m watching Daisy move and wondered about the bent position of her body as she cues the tight turns. Her movement doesn’t look very comfortable in that bent position. I know she practices a lot of squats for quad strength but wouldn’t running in a bent position get to the handler’s back over time?

    • No, I am not aware of any studies that show running in a bent position for very short periods of time leads to chronic back injury. Many other sports require similar positions, including basketball, volleyball, and football. Most back injuries in these sports are related to jumping or impact.

  • I think she might be referring to this maneuver (http://foohmaxagility.blogspot.ca/2010/09/flip-handling-maneuver.html), or this (http://foohmaxagility.blogspot.ca/2012/04/180-flip.html).

    This document calls it a “Mitchell Flip” (http://members.peak.org/~helix/private/2001Feb.pdf) pg.43 describes it: “The Mitchell Flip is second cousin to the RFP. A combination turn, it starts like a cross (a turn towards the dog), as does the RFP. However, rather than crossing back, towards the dog, the handler rolls out into a blind turn. The Flip provides for robust handler movement more compelling than any verbal could possibly be, which can be effective from a lateral distance, or even slightly behind the dog. It’s not a good movement for a less than athletic handler.”

    • Love the flip move. Pair it with directionals and solid weave pole entries and it gives a handler a lot of freedom. In the case of the weaves in this course, the handler would have to make sure to work the curve of the dog’s path into the weaves.

      Love the distance handling that Daisy uses from the tunnel to the broad jump.

  • Valerie,
    If the dog understands the reverse post turn it usually creates a much tighter turn. My guess on why is that in a typical post turn we stand still and rotate our shoulders–which makes it difficult to get a truly tight turn. In the rpt, you are turning and leaving earlier, which from the dogs perspective drives them along and thru the turn quicker as you leave. That’s my less-than-pro two cents anyway!

    • Dog’s usually understand the reverse post turn, no problem. It’s just a cue combination that, when timed right, produces a particular result. The *real* problem in my mind is that, if used too often or inappropriately, the handler LOSES the ability to cue collection with a very similar cue combination, and for most people, that is a skill more worth having than doing a reverse post turn 🙂 It has its advantages, but like most anything, it has its consequences too.

  • Oh, I am starting to FINALLY get it! There IS no side change, hence ‘reverse post turn’. What’s advantage of ‘reverse post turn’ over basic post turn (why not keep dog on left from 11 into the weaves)? The reverse post turn creates a tighter turn into the weaves?

  • I know for Cheetah, I always feel that if I can keep her extended it will be better than wrapping…I wonder if it will be any different with the Toller?? I love this app… I just got it for my android phone, but alas I don’t have an ipad 🙁 I need to get one. Has anyone used it on a PC??

  • Esteban – what video editing software are you using? Really cool with the line drawing. Do you feel like John Madden (I’m dating myself:)

    • Patty, we use the Coach’s Eye. It’s incredibly powerful, easy to use, and just five bucks. Look on your phone in the app store. It’s turned our iPad into a great tool for agility. In my opinion, every agility person would find it useful, especially instructors. And I love John Madden! –Esteban

      • That’s what I’ve been using in my Online Classroom, it’s a great way to give feedback. Yes, the app costs only $5, but I’m already thinking of getting another iPad to help with the processing time 🙂

        • Totally Daisy! Because of that $5 app, we now have an iPad stand, an indestructible case, and we’ve been thinking about a second iPad so we don’t have to compete with our son for iPad time!!!

  • I agree with the description of the change of terminology from Ketschker to reverse post turn, it makes the move more accurate to hear it put that way

  • Is it possible to get a course map of this course? I looked on AKC and Rose City Classic website(s) with no luck? I would love to try this course…

  • I will also say that I no longer consider a Ketschker to be a true blind cross, as there’s no side change, and I prefer the term ‘reverse post turn’ to Ketschker, as it more accurately describes the function and use of that particular cue combination.

    • That’s interesting. I’ll talk with Sarah about updating the visual dictionary. I wonder what a linguist would make of the evolution of agility lingo? There’s a dissertation in there somewhere…

      • I don’t understand, it looks like a side change to me. Dog on right then dog on left after second jump…what am I missing?

  • Great analysis, but I disagree that my choice near the end of the course was slower than wrapping the dog around the jump. For my dog, keeping him in extension and allowing him to slice the jump rather than wrap it, is almost always going to be faster than the wrap, even if the yardage is a bit longer 🙂

    • I also liked your way best when I looked at the map, but when we ran the options, it wasn’t the fastest path, by far. We didn’t have a 26″ dog on us though, so I’ll run the same sequence with some larger dogs and different handlers and see what we come up with.

        • I loved this run when I first saw it a few weeks ago via Daisy and I loved the analysis too–thanks for putting it out there!

          Also, I caught the slice/wrap mention that you are debating before Daisy chimed in–I’ve had her drill into me personally that slices are most always faster!

          Either way, great discussion to have. Please keep doing these analysis–they are great.

      • We’ve done some interesting timings in class at Power Paws with Nancy G, when one or more of us has disagreed in concept over which path is faster–not specific to RPTs, but even for blind crosses, wrapping left vs slicing right, etc. It has become clear that it depends SO much on the dog and the handler. Take Nancy and her dogs and Silvina B and her two world team dogs, f’rinstance, and they might all have different results, same handler but different dogs. This tells me that you really do need to time things for yourself and can’t always say definitively what’s faster for everyone.

    • I agree with you Daisy, having a large 26″ jumping dog, that prefers extension, I would have opted for the same turn. The ground speed is there when you have a long striding dog.

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